Battery problems, troubleshooting help needed

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Subject Author Date
Battery problems, troubleshooting help needed chris 10-07-2006
Posted by on October 7, 2006, 3:15 pm
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Hello:

I have been trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem on my tractor
(John Deere 300 with 16 hp Kohler single cylinder) and so far I am
totally stumped. The problem is this: The battery seemed to be out of
juice so I had to jump the tractor from my car. The tractor started
right up and ran.... but as soon as I disconnected the jumper cables
from the car, the tractor stalled immediately.

I am assuming the tractor should continue to run on its own power, so I
started testing the charging system on it. The stator voltage was
fine, around 30 volts AC. However when I went to check the voltage
coming out of the rectifier, my multimeter went crazy and I could not
get any consistent reading when connecting the negative of the
multimeter to the engine block. It was as if something was interfering
with the multimeter. But when I used the frame of the tractor for the
negative, I finally got a consistent reading of around 0.3-0.7 volts
DC. The negative battery terminal runs directly to the engine block and
that connection was good. So immediately I assumed the rectifier was
bad. After connecting a new rectifier still the same problem.

So next I hooked up the jumper cables again and shut off the car,
keeping the cables attached.. and the tractor continued to run just
fine. I checked the voltage across the tractor's battery and it was
around 14.5 volts. I shut off the tractor with the key and the voltage
dropped to around 13.5 volts. When I saw this I assumed the charging
system was working and that my earlier assumption of a bad rectifier
was incorrect. Then I removed the jumper cables and the voltage then
showed 10.5 volts. Is it possible that the tractor's battery is bad or
shorted, causing these issues???

Thanks in advance for any feedback...
--
Chris


Posted by Ken Weitzel on October 7, 2006, 3:32 pm
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chris@groupinfo.com wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I have been trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem on my tractor
> (John Deere 300 with 16 hp Kohler single cylinder) and so far I am
> totally stumped. The problem is this: The battery seemed to be out of
> juice so I had to jump the tractor from my car. The tractor started
> right up and ran.... but as soon as I disconnected the jumper cables
> from the car, the tractor stalled immediately.
>
> I am assuming the tractor should continue to run on its own power, so I
> started testing the charging system on it. The stator voltage was
> fine, around 30 volts AC. However when I went to check the voltage
> coming out of the rectifier, my multimeter went crazy and I could not
> get any consistent reading when connecting the negative of the
> multimeter to the engine block. It was as if something was interfering
> with the multimeter. But when I used the frame of the tractor for the
> negative, I finally got a consistent reading of around 0.3-0.7 volts
> DC. The negative battery terminal runs directly to the engine block and
> that connection was good. So immediately I assumed the rectifier was
> bad. After connecting a new rectifier still the same problem.
>
> So next I hooked up the jumper cables again and shut off the car,
> keeping the cables attached.. and the tractor continued to run just
> fine. I checked the voltage across the tractor's battery and it was
> around 14.5 volts. I shut off the tractor with the key and the voltage
> dropped to around 13.5 volts. When I saw this I assumed the charging
> system was working and that my earlier assumption of a bad rectifier
> was incorrect. Then I removed the jumper cables and the voltage then
> showed 10.5 volts. Is it possible that the tractor's battery is bad or
> shorted, causing these issues???
>
> Thanks in advance for any feedback...

Hi Chris...

I suspect that you have one shorted (perhaps intermittently) cell
in the battery.

A surefire quick and dirty test would be to switch the battery
with another if one's available - but NOT with the one from your
car, unless you have a car available that's older than the current
computer ones.

Take care.

Ken


Posted by SAMMM on October 7, 2006, 4:45 pm
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a characteristic of the kohler charging regulators is that on a totally dead
battery, they won't do anything.
when the battery voltage gets to about 8 volts if i recall correctly,
they perform well.
try charging the battery with a battery charger and check the voltage
for proper charging.
remember, there may be a current draw on the battery which is
running it down over time.

incidentally, which type regulator is in your tractor?
they come as a small heatsinked unit about the size of a deck of
playing cards and also a larger unit about twice or 3 times that size.

the 16 hp magnum twins on up use a smaller unit mounted in the fan shroud
with 3 push-on connectors.
i use that type in an industrial app with a transformer to keep batteries
charged.
good luck, sam


--

> Hello:
>
> I have been trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem on my tractor
> (John Deere 300 with 16 hp Kohler single cylinder) and so far I am
> totally stumped. The problem is this: The battery seemed to be out of
> juice so I had to jump the tractor from my car. The tractor started
> right up and ran.... but as soon as I disconnected the jumper cables
> from the car, the tractor stalled immediately.
>
> I am assuming the tractor should continue to run on its own power, so I
> started testing the charging system on it. The stator voltage was
> fine, around 30 volts AC. However when I went to check the voltage
> coming out of the rectifier, my multimeter went crazy and I could not
> get any consistent reading when connecting the negative of the
> multimeter to the engine block. It was as if something was interfering
> with the multimeter. But when I used the frame of the tractor for the
> negative, I finally got a consistent reading of around 0.3-0.7 volts
> DC. The negative battery terminal runs directly to the engine block and
> that connection was good. So immediately I assumed the rectifier was
> bad. After connecting a new rectifier still the same problem.
>
> So next I hooked up the jumper cables again and shut off the car,
> keeping the cables attached.. and the tractor continued to run just
> fine. I checked the voltage across the tractor's battery and it was
> around 14.5 volts. I shut off the tractor with the key and the voltage
> dropped to around 13.5 volts. When I saw this I assumed the charging
> system was working and that my earlier assumption of a bad rectifier
> was incorrect. Then I removed the jumper cables and the voltage then
> showed 10.5 volts. Is it possible that the tractor's battery is bad or
> shorted, causing these issues???
>
> Thanks in advance for any feedback...
> --
> Chris
>



Posted by Venus² on October 8, 2006, 4:49 pm
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Yes folks if the battery is low in power, you can't expect a sudden
recovery, it will take at least 1.5 day to charge it. I am periodically
charging my battery for my unused car in a garage.

Especially in winter, you need to keep the charge going or your battery
could
go dead, it happened to me before. Battery is like a human, it wants food,
food, food. You can't leave it for 4-5 months without foods then give him
foods again, it won't work.


-Cam



>a characteristic of the kohler charging regulators is that on a totally
>dead
> battery, they won't do anything.
> when the battery voltage gets to about 8 volts if i recall correctly,
> they perform well.
> try charging the battery with a battery charger and check the voltage
> for proper charging.
> remember, there may be a current draw on the battery which is
> running it down over time.
>
> incidentally, which type regulator is in your tractor?
> they come as a small heatsinked unit about the size of a deck of
> playing cards and also a larger unit about twice or 3 times that size.
>
> the 16 hp magnum twins on up use a smaller unit mounted in the fan shroud
> with 3 push-on connectors.
> i use that type in an industrial app with a transformer to keep batteries
> charged.
> good luck, sam
>
>
> --
>
>> Hello:
>>
>> I have been trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem on my tractor
>> (John Deere 300 with 16 hp Kohler single cylinder) and so far I am
>> totally stumped. The problem is this: The battery seemed to be out of
>> juice so I had to jump the tractor from my car. The tractor started
>> right up and ran.... but as soon as I disconnected the jumper cables
>> from the car, the tractor stalled immediately.
>>
>> I am assuming the tractor should continue to run on its own power, so I
>> started testing the charging system on it. The stator voltage was
>> fine, around 30 volts AC. However when I went to check the voltage
>> coming out of the rectifier, my multimeter went crazy and I could not
>> get any consistent reading when connecting the negative of the
>> multimeter to the engine block. It was as if something was interfering
>> with the multimeter. But when I used the frame of the tractor for the
>> negative, I finally got a consistent reading of around 0.3-0.7 volts
>> DC. The negative battery terminal runs directly to the engine block and
>> that connection was good. So immediately I assumed the rectifier was
>> bad. After connecting a new rectifier still the same problem.
>>
>> So next I hooked up the jumper cables again and shut off the car,
>> keeping the cables attached.. and the tractor continued to run just
>> fine. I checked the voltage across the tractor's battery and it was
>> around 14.5 volts. I shut off the tractor with the key and the voltage
>> dropped to around 13.5 volts. When I saw this I assumed the charging
>> system was working and that my earlier assumption of a bad rectifier
>> was incorrect. Then I removed the jumper cables and the voltage then
>> showed 10.5 volts. Is it possible that the tractor's battery is bad or
>> shorted, causing these issues???
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any feedback...
>> --
>> Chris
>>
>
>




Posted by on October 8, 2006, 9:02 pm
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
Thank you for the quick response.

The regulator (rectifier) that I have is smaller one about the size of
a small deck of cards (engine is a 16 HP Kohler K341AQS). It is
mounted on the fan shroud, with 3 connectors, as you mentioned.

I have thoroughly tested everything I can think of as suggested in the
other posts (checking ground, voltage, etc) ... so I will be taking the
battery in to be tested and will post the results of what happens.

Thanks again!!
--
Chris


SAMMM wrote:
> a characteristic of the kohler charging regulators is that on a totally dead
> battery, they won't do anything.
> when the battery voltage gets to about 8 volts if i recall correctly,
> they perform well.
> try charging the battery with a battery charger and check the voltage
> for proper charging.
> remember, there may be a current draw on the battery which is
> running it down over time.
>
> incidentally, which type regulator is in your tractor?
> they come as a small heatsinked unit about the size of a deck of
> playing cards and also a larger unit about twice or 3 times that size.
>
> the 16 hp magnum twins on up use a smaller unit mounted in the fan shroud
> with 3 push-on connectors.
> i use that type in an industrial app with a transformer to keep batteries
> charged.
> good luck, sam
>
>
> --
>
> > Hello:
> >
> > I have been trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem on my tractor
> > (John Deere 300 with 16 hp Kohler single cylinder) and so far I am
> > totally stumped. The problem is this: The battery seemed to be out of
> > juice so I had to jump the tractor from my car. The tractor started
> > right up and ran.... but as soon as I disconnected the jumper cables
> > from the car, the tractor stalled immediately.
> >
> > I am assuming the tractor should continue to run on its own power, so I
> > started testing the charging system on it. The stator voltage was
> > fine, around 30 volts AC. However when I went to check the voltage
> > coming out of the rectifier, my multimeter went crazy and I could not
> > get any consistent reading when connecting the negative of the
> > multimeter to the engine block. It was as if something was interfering
> > with the multimeter. But when I used the frame of the tractor for the
> > negative, I finally got a consistent reading of around 0.3-0.7 volts
> > DC. The negative battery terminal runs directly to the engine block and
> > that connection was good. So immediately I assumed the rectifier was
> > bad. After connecting a new rectifier still the same problem.
> >
> > So next I hooked up the jumper cables again and shut off the car,
> > keeping the cables attached.. and the tractor continued to run just
> > fine. I checked the voltage across the tractor's battery and it was
> > around 14.5 volts. I shut off the tractor with the key and the voltage
> > dropped to around 13.5 volts. When I saw this I assumed the charging
> > system was working and that my earlier assumption of a bad rectifier
> > was incorrect. Then I removed the jumper cables and the voltage then
> > showed 10.5 volts. Is it possible that the tractor's battery is bad or
> > shorted, causing these issues???
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any feedback...
> > --
> > Chris
> >


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