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Subcomandante wrote:
> raphfrk@netscape.net wrote:
> > It is ? You have an option not to sign and rent a house or something
> > if you want. In any case, it isn't the governments or anyone else's
> > responsibility to provide anyone with a house.
> >
> I agree so why the government (HUD) is supporting HOA and CAI industry
> and giving them funds?...HUH
Because some people are socialists. Everyone should have to pay for
their own house (or rent it).
> >
> >>Dues are set by the board without approval by owners and without limit
> >>as to special assessments and if not payed, the owner will be
> >>non-judicially foreclosed on, within 15 days + Attorney fees. Your
> >>$400,000 house can be sold for $4,000 or less.
> >>
Sounds like a bad contract. In fact, signing a contract which requires
that you pay an unlimited fee isn't a good idea at all.
> We have a law which defines validity of contract. The law is set by the
> Government. However, special interest and CAI forced or bribed the
> Government to change contractual laws so they would support HOA fraud.
> What kind of legal contract allows one side to change contractual
> conditions without a notice?.....Huh?
>
Presumably, it doesn't. The rules for changing the conditions would
have been in the original agreement.
> I disagree that the zoning has anything to do with HOA hosing concept.
> The HOA is an industry, banks, lawyer, realtors, escrows.... etc. and
> are benefiting from fraudulent concept and fraudulent contract to rip
> of the consumer. The Government too is riping of HOA consumer by levying
> same property tax as to non HOA consumer without representation because
> HOA consumer is maintaining property via dues.
You said that one of the reason that HOA's were immoral is that some
cities were only allowing new developments if they had a HOA, which I
agree is a bad thing. At least that is what I thought you meant. If
you meant that builders were only building HOA developments by choice,
well, then I disagree that that is a problem. The builders can build
any type of development that they want on their own land.
> Someones crime is someone else freedom.
The right to sell you own property isn't considered a crime by very
many people.
> Name last time you have read any contract for Credit card, loan, or 150
> pages of CC&Rs?? You are romanticizing something which no longer exists
> in tis country.
>
> It is essential to the existence of a contract that there be:
> (1) identifiable parties capable of contracting;
> (2) their consent;
> (3) a lawful object; and
> (4) a sufficient cause or consideration.
>
> Take credit card contract which is easier than HOA one to explain.
> OK, I don't want credit card because I'm unwilling to pay extra 10% to
> 25% for everything I buy.
You pay the same as if you used cash right ? Now, if you are running
you credit card into debt, then you have to pay very high interest.
All you need to do is pre-pay the credit card. In fact, I've heard
that you can buy pre-paid credit cards.
> OK!
> So I don't consent (2 above) therefore will not get the card.
> Then, I decide to go on vacation and packet $20,000 from my bank. What
> do you thing will happen to me on the airport when they see my suitcase
> full of money? My 20,000 is confiscated, I get arrested an must prove
> that I'm not drug dealer, or terrorist.
There must be 100 different ways to transfer money. You could get
travelers cheques or something.
> That goes for HOA too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> You must sign HOA contract if you want to live in Orange County CA, like
> I do.
You could also rent and let the other person worry about the HOA.
> That would and does not work because in socialism people exhibit extreme
> apathy and would and don't vote on anything especially increase of dues.
That was kinda the plan, it would make anything more than a 5% per year
increase almost impossible to get passed.
>
> Ironically, socialism should bring people together but exact posit
> happens if one isn't in charge of its own affairs.
>
I agree, socialism is a really really bad idea.
>
> Please put into your socialistic head that HOA isn't about housing or
> you! It is about the industry.
>
If nobody agreed to the HOA contracts, then the industry would change.
The problem is that the general public is inexperienced in dealing with
HOA type contracts. As awareness grows of the pitfalls, people will
ask the important questions even if they do not read the entire
contract.
>
> It is just better mouse trap. But a trap!
>
My point was that you cannot just say "HOAs are bad so we should ban
them". Maybe the problems can be reduced. I'm not exactly sure what
the benefits are supposed to be, other than maybe paying for general
maintainance or something.
> > Correct, and by saying that all property is held in common you are
> > effectively removing property itself. The whole point of property is
> > to allow you exclusive use of it. Banning HOAs means that you are
> > preventing people using their property in the means that they see fit.
> > A communist is someone who does this kind of thing to people "for their
> > own good".
> >
>
> Wrong: Communism is a religion. All communist I knew back in
> Czechoslovakia were poor like me and were dreaming about the ultimate
> day where everything will be for free.
>
However, presumably, they justify communism to themselves by saying it
is for the benefit of everyone right ?
> As long as you are promoting HOA you are not promoting individualism but
> tyranny. In your argument you are relying on a contract which is in
> essence contract with devil.
Actually, what I was promoting was freedom of contract. I actually
referred to HOA agreements as stupid. I almost certainly wouldn't sign
them, but that doesn't give me the right to stop others from doing so.
What causes a society to shift towards socialism is when most people's
first though when faced with a problem is to turn to the goverment to
save them.
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Re: Texas Property Tax Ruled Unconstitutional
