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Re: mastering the fine art of haggling 3G 03-24-2007
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Posted by 3G on March 24, 2007, 6:28 am



> Eigenvector wrote:
> > I have a good friend at work who's a GC for the company that I work
> > for. He
> > gets hired to build walls, paint, install ceilings, that sort of
> > thing.
> > He's as good as any GC I've had to work with. (I just escort them
> > and make
> > sure they don't run off with company secrets).
>
> > Anyway he approached me and said that if I needed to have some work
> > done
> > he'd be willing to work out a price for small jobs on the side. I'm
> > willing, but I get the impression the conversation's gonna go like
> > this
>
> > "So, I'm wondering if you could help me replace a damaged support
> > post in my
> > crawlspace"
> > "Sure, what do you think it's worth to you?"
> > "Uhh uhhh I uhhhh, ummmmm <fumbling around because I don't have a
> > clue what
> > these guys make on the sly> 500 bucks???"
> > "Yeah sure whatever asshole. Call me back when you're serious."
>
> > I know what he makes, I know what the materials cost, but for on the
> > sly
> > jobs he isn't making union wages (or is he?).
>
> > So I'm wondering if it should go like this
> > He makes 100 bucks an hour (roughly) so maybe go for 70 bucks an
> > hour for
> > the job and estimate 2 hours to do the work - call it 300 bucks and
> > start
> > from there. For someone who doesn't do it for a living you're really
> > at a
> > disadvantage when working with these guys because you really don't
> > know how
> > much this stuff costs. You either end up ending a good relationship
> > or
> > getting fleeced like a lamb.
>
> If the guy's a good friend, let him lead. Start with a small job.
>
> R- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

>have him look and give you price, small job first pay him cash and be
>nice. can save tons of bucks and get good job too

it is always better to work for free for a friend or family.
this way no one is insulted and you still end up friends in the end.
or as "hallerb" said pay him what he estimates...do not make an
insulting offer.
or maybe barter for some work.



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Posted by on March 24, 2007, 9:44 am


>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Eigenvector wrote:
> > > I have a good friend at work who's a GC for the company that I work
> > > for. He
> > > gets hired to build walls, paint, install ceilings, that sort of
> > > thing.
> > > He's as good as any GC I've had to work with. (I just escort them
> > > and make
> > > sure they don't run off with company secrets).
>
> > > Anyway he approached me and said that if I needed to have some work
> > > done
> > > he'd be willing to work out a price for small jobs on the side. I'm
> > > willing, but I get the impression the conversation's gonna go like
> > > this
>
> > > "So, I'm wondering if you could help me replace a damaged support
> > > post in my
> > > crawlspace"
> > > "Sure, what do you think it's worth to you?"
> > > "Uhh uhhh I uhhhh, ummmmm <fumbling around because I don't have a
> > > clue what
> > > these guys make on the sly> 500 bucks???"
> > > "Yeah sure whatever asshole. Call me back when you're serious."
>
> > > I know what he makes, I know what the materials cost, but for on the
> > > sly
> > > jobs he isn't making union wages (or is he?).
>
> > > So I'm wondering if it should go like this
> > > He makes 100 bucks an hour (roughly) so maybe go for 70 bucks an
> > > hour for
> > > the job and estimate 2 hours to do the work - call it 300 bucks and
> > > start
> > > from there. For someone who doesn't do it for a living you're really
> > > at a
> > > disadvantage when working with these guys because you really don't
> > > know how
> > > much this stuff costs. You either end up ending a good relationship
> > > or
> > > getting fleeced like a lamb.
>
> > If the guy's a good friend, let him lead. Start with a small job.
>
> > R- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
> >have him look and give you price, small job first pay him cash and be
> >nice. can save tons of bucks and get good job too
>
> it is always better to work for free for a friend or family.
> this way no one is insulted and you still end up friends in the end.
> or as "hallerb" said pay him what he estimates...do not make an
> insulting offer.
> or maybe barter for some work.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


If your idea is he normally charges $100 an hour and because you know
him he's going to give you a great deal of $70 an hour, you must have $
$$ to burn, as those rates seem over the top to me here in NJ for
someone that paints and installs ceilings.

If you want to engage him, I would expect him to come over, give a
price for the job, not by the hour and write a contract, just like
any contractor would. As suggested, I'd start with something small.
If it's a larger job, then surely get multiple estimates to compare
him against.


Posted by mm on March 24, 2007, 4:11 pm


On 24 Mar 2007 06:44:49 -0700, trader4@optonline.net wrote:

>
>If you want to engage him, I would expect him to come over, give a
>price for the job, not by the hour and write a contract, just like
>any contractor would.

It's more important to have a contract with friends than with
strangers, with all the terms given.

If you fight with a non-friend, you just lose a contractor.
If you fight with a friend, you lose a contractor and a friend.

As suggested, I'd start with something small.
>If it's a larger job, then surely get multiple estimates to compare
>him against.


Posted by Eigenvector on March 24, 2007, 4:18 pm



> On 24 Mar 2007 06:44:49 -0700, trader4@optonline.net wrote:
>
>>
>>If you want to engage him, I would expect him to come over, give a
>>price for the job, not by the hour and write a contract, just like
>>any contractor would.
>
> It's more important to have a contract with friends than with
> strangers, with all the terms given.
>
> If you fight with a non-friend, you just lose a contractor.
> If you fight with a friend, you lose a contractor and a friend.

Hmm, I didn't realize that was done between friends and small side jobs.

If that's the case then I'd just as soon as hire him as a professional and
have him compete for the work like any other GC out there. The money isn't
important to me, I have enough.
>
> As suggested, I'd start with something small.
>>If it's a larger job, then surely get multiple estimates to compare
>>him against.
>


Posted by mm on March 24, 2007, 9:10 pm


On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:18:43 -0700, "Eigenvector"

>
>> It's more important to have a contract with friends than with
>> strangers, with all the terms given.
>>
>> If you fight with a non-friend, you just lose a contractor.
>> If you fight with a friend, you lose a contractor and a friend.
>
>Hmm, I didn't realize that was done between friends and small side jobs.

I didn't really follow your first post. In fact I couldn't tell if
you were going to work for him or vice versa, or how big the job is.

But I enjoy wathching the People's Court a lot, and there is a big
variety of cases, so no one kind is more than 10 or 20 percent, and
this is even less than 10 percent, but there are fairly often cases of
friends dealing with each other financially, lending money, selling a
car, bartering work for things, etc. And if they end up in court it
often hurts the friendship. Of course, the number that ends up in
court is small compared to the number that don't, but that would be
true regarding contracts between strangers too. Most contractors would
still do what they are supposed to and most customers would still be
satisfied.

I can see why one might not want to have a contract with friends --
it's sort of like asking for a prenup with someone you are supposedly
in love with -- but one should then be able to suck it up if things
don't go well. Of course even while sucking it up, one can still feel
angry at the other guy, regardless of how he told himself he would
feel before there was a problem.

The biggest source of avoidable problems seems to be that there isn't
agreement on what is actually to be done, and I guess that includes
what materials will be used. Even writing all that down might prevent
a good chunk of the problems.

They fight about all the things that non-friends fight about,
sometimes they fight about not getting done in time. The friend
things it will be done during his off hours on no particular schedule,
and the other one wants it before the inlaws come for Thanksgiving.

>
>If that's the case then I'd just as soon as hire him as a professional and
>have him compete for the work like any other GC out there. The money isn't
>important to me, I have enough.


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