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Water heater question Ook 03-24-2007
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Posted by Ook on March 24, 2007, 2:51 am


So, I go to shower, no hot water. Head down to basement, check water heater
and breakers. I found that one of the breakers in the breaker box had blown,
and the breaker at the element itself had popped out. I clicked it in, reset
breaker, and now I have hot water again. I also noticed water on the floor
that looked as if several gallons had come out of the overflow/overpressure
on the top of the heater. I'm guessing the top thermostat didn't shut off
and it overheated, causing water to come out the overflow, and the breaker
to blow. Does this sound reasonable?

Now it's working, but for how long? Those of you that know more then I do
about water heaters (which is probably most of you lol), would you replace
the thermostat for the top element (is it part of the element, or
seperate?), or watch it to see if it happens again?



Radiant Heat 468x60
Posted by RBM on March 24, 2007, 7:48 am


I don't necessarily see a relationship between the circuit breaker blowing
and the water heater overheating. Watch it for a while to see if it
overheats. If so, replace the thermostat. The thermostat is a separate
device from the element. Be sure you understand the wires and make sure it's
mounted tightly against the tank


"Ook" <Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
Don't send me any freakin' spam> wrote in message
> So, I go to shower, no hot water. Head down to basement, check water
> heater and breakers. I found that one of the breakers in the breaker box
> had blown, and the breaker at the element itself had popped out. I clicked
> it in, reset breaker, and now I have hot water again. I also noticed water
> on the floor that looked as if several gallons had come out of the
> overflow/overpressure on the top of the heater. I'm guessing the top
> thermostat didn't shut off and it overheated, causing water to come out
> the overflow, and the breaker to blow. Does this sound reasonable?
>
> Now it's working, but for how long? Those of you that know more then I do
> about water heaters (which is probably most of you lol), would you replace
> the thermostat for the top element (is it part of the element, or
> seperate?), or watch it to see if it happens again?
>



Posted by Jeff Wisnia on March 24, 2007, 10:36 am


RBM wrote:

> I don't necessarily see a relationship between the circuit breaker blowing
> and the water heater overheating. Watch it for a while to see if it
> overheats. If so, replace the thermostat. The thermostat is a separate
> device from the element. Be sure you understand the wires and make sure it's
> mounted tightly against the tank
>
>
> "Ook" <Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
> Don't send me any freakin' spam> wrote in message
>
>>So, I go to shower, no hot water. Head down to basement, check water
>>heater and breakers. I found that one of the breakers in the breaker box
>>had blown, and the breaker at the element itself had popped out. I clicked
>>it in, reset breaker, and now I have hot water again. I also noticed water
>>on the floor that looked as if several gallons had come out of the
>>overflow/overpressure on the top of the heater. I'm guessing the top
>>thermostat didn't shut off and it overheated, causing water to come out
>>the overflow, and the breaker to blow. Does this sound reasonable?
>>
>>Now it's working, but for how long? Those of you that know more then I do
>>about water heaters (which is probably most of you lol), would you replace
>>the thermostat for the top element (is it part of the element, or
>>seperate?), or watch it to see if it happens again?
>>
>
>
>
I agree that it's probably not the thermostat if the panel breaker also
tripped.

What's more likely is that one of the heating elements developed a short
to its grounded sheath which bypassed the thermostat and allowed it to
keep heating on 120 volts until the overtemp condition occurred.

I'd go for replacing both elements as there's no real easy way to tell
for sure which one it might have been, and also 'cause things which go
away by themselves usually come back by themselves.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

Posted by RBM on March 24, 2007, 12:33 pm


I agree with you under that scenario, but if the heating end was to short I
think it would trip the breaker and not heat, and if it were to long, it
wouldn't heat enough to overheat



> RBM wrote:
>
>> Personally, I don't think the heating element could get hot enough on 120
>> volt to cause the high limit to trip
>>
>
> I, on the other hand, think it could. I'm not sure you considered the
> excellent thermal insulation in modern water heaters.
>
> Let's suppose it's a 4500 watt element and the short to ground occurs
> eggsackly in the middle of the heater. Then, 120 volts (from the side of
> the 240 the thermostat's not switching) is connected across half the
> element and would dissipate half the normal power, 2250 watts.
>
> Given the very effective insulation on modern water heaters, if no one is
> drawing hot water, that much power continuously inputted will keep raising
> the temperature.
>
> If the short to ground isn't right in the center of the element, but
> closer to the unswitched end, then the power dissipated could be even
> higher than 2250 watts, until something lets go.
>
> I'm not about to set up an experiment to prove it, but I'd bet a nickle
> I'm right about what I just wrote...
>
> Jeff
>
> --
> Jeffry Wisnia
> (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
> The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.



Posted by Ook on March 24, 2007, 1:26 pm


I don't know 100% sure that it overheated, only that there was several
gallons of water on the floor and the only water source there is the water
heater. The water heater is at the highest point in my basement, and the
water on the floor came from behind the heater where the overflow valve
dumps. A blown breaker by itself is no biggee, just replace the element. But
what caused the water to flow out the overflow?

I think I'll just replace the elements and thermostats and call it good.
Safest that way. If I had the time I'd put a gas water heater, but that is
on my todo list for next summer sometime when I have more time...

>I agree with you under that scenario, but if the heating end was to short I
>think it would trip the breaker and not heat, and if it were to long, it
>wouldn't heat enough to overheat
>
>
>



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